Czechs and Ukrainians Have a Similar Sense of Humour, Says a Student of the Faculty Of Law

Ivan is one of nine Ukrainian students currently studying at the Prague Law Faculty. He has lived in Prague since 2022, when war broke out in his home country, while his parents stayed in Ukraine. Just a few days ago, he was awarded second place by the Dean in the Student Research and Scholarly Activities Competition (SVOČ). What is it like for him to live and study in the Czech Republic and why does he like The Cremator by Ladislav Fuks? These are just of a few of the things we discussed in our interview with Ivan Kotsupal.

How did you end up in the Czech Republic?

I have lived in the Czech Republic since 2022, but I had travelled here before as a tourist. Sadly, I am here on my own, my parents stayed in Ukraine. My dad cannot travel due to health reasons and my mum cannot leave him there alone. But I feel their support and love even if we are a thousand kilometres apart.

Where do your parents live?

In the Sumy Oblast, where fighting is taking place. This is where we come from.

You probably do not want to say where exactly...

No, I don’t.

So how did you end up at the Faculty of Law?

I studied law in Ukraine, so I became what is called a free mover [term used for students studying abroad outside the Erasmus programme], and I enrolled in the lifelong learning programme. After fulfilling the requirements of the programme and achieved an average grade of 2.25, I was admitted as a regular student.

What year are you in now?

I’m in my second year, and I have already passed all my exams [the interview took place in mid-June].

Congratulations! Tell me about your studies at our Faculty.

It feels almost unreal. I am really thrilled that I can study law here in Prague. I often say that studying law is not a right, but a privilege, and studying law in Prague is a truly special privilege.

Where did you study in Ukraine?

I studied law at Kyiv University, which is the most prestigious university in Ukraine, for two years. But the studies were a bit different. At first, most classes were remote because of the pandemic, and then due to the war. So I didn’t have much of a student life in Ukraine.

You cannot really compare studying law in Prague and Kyiv then...

Not really, but I noticed that there is an unwritten rule in Ukraine that during lectures, it is the teacher who speaks, and in seminars, it is the student. This goes against the widely used method of conveying information here in seminars. I was quite surprised that it is mostly the teacher who speaks, rather than the student.

Does it mean that it is more about communication in Ukraine?

I would say the students are more involved. In seminars, each student must prepare a list of questions and a short presentation in which they analyse the given topic. I sort of miss this here but some teachers here do take a similar approach. I know that some Czech students find this quite difficult, but for me, this is the spirit of the Kyiv University.

Let’s hope then that you will have more such seminars in the coming years. This is exactly why smaller classrooms were built on the fourth floor – so that there would be more space for seminars. So hopefully you will have more classes like this. You have very good grades, with an average of 1.33. How difficult is it for you to study in Czech?

Law is a difficult field as such, and if you add in a foreign language, it gets twice as difficult. But I have to say that I am motivated a lot by the people around me. I have met so many great people here, and not only students. If you study in a super-active academic environment, you are pushed to keep working harder and harder. I met many of them at a research seminar on the theory of law and constitutional law. Not only do I love studying with these people, but we also spend free time together. I would really love to thank everyone who recommended that I study in the lifelong learning programme because it did change my life. It is basically “year zero” and you can have your credits recognised and then continue your studies directly in the second year.

I have to say that your Czech is really good. How long have you been learning Czech?

Well, as for academic Czech, I would say a year, maybe a year and a half. But I have found out that it is far more efficient to learn a foreign language by living in the foreign language environment. Most of my social contacts are Czech, so if I want to talk to someone, I simply have to speak Czech. There’s no other choice.

Did you try to communicate in English at first?

Yes, I did try speaking English at first, but I was not very good at it, so I told myself: you’re in the Czech Republic, speak Czech.

There are nine Ukrainian students in total at the Law Faculty. Do you know each other?

Yes, we stay in touch. We prepare for seminars and attend them together, we also register for examinations together, and share our notes from seminars and lectures.

Did you already know any of them from the University of Kyiv or did you only meet them here?

Here in Prague. But I know that some of them also study at Ukrainian universities, in remote form.

What is life like in the Czech Republic for you in general?

I’d say it feels like home for me. You know, I really love Czech culture, literature, and history, and that specific Czech sense of humour. I think that the Czech mentality is quite close to ours.

Really? Tell me more...

Oh… [laughter] Well, when I talk to other foreigners, for example Erasmus students, and I also know a lot of people from third countries, I would just say that the Czechs are much closer to us than, let’s say, the Germans or the French. But I have to admit that the Czech Republic is the only Slavic country which really leans towards the West, compared to the others. You can just see that Czech culture and mentality are closely linked to Europe. But there are many common features with the Ukrainians, too. Maybe that sense of humour because we also tend to use a lot of irony, which brings us close to Czech humour.

Historically, there has been a lot of German and Austro-Hungarian influence here. We come off as rather cold to other Slavs, like the Slovaks or the Polish. Even people from Moravia say so… [Ivan is laughing] Do you also think that is the case compared to the Ukrainians? Because I often hear that we are a bit distant.

I often hear that the Czechs are too conservative, that they do not like foreigners, or anything foreign in general. But this is actually quite close to the Ukrainian mentality. Ukrainians might not be as conservative as the Czechs, but I am not really sure. I have a lot of Czech friends and I don’t have the feeling that they are cold, as other foreigners sometimes say.

So how do you think that the Czechs feel towards you? Has there been any change since the war broke out in 2022?

There have been some reports on negative feelings towards Ukrainians in the media and some people have even politicised the topic, which, I guess, is to be expected. But I have not yet personally met any such people and I have not had this experience, quite the opposite. Everyone wants to help. I believe it has to do with the tragedies of 1938 and 1968, that you Czechs simply understand the situation that Ukraine is in today.

I am really glad that we had the government that we had at that time and that the position of our country and the then Slovak president helped to shape the European position as such. The fact that we held the presidency of the European Council at that time was sort of a silver lining because the Western countries do not have this experience...

They cannot really imagine what a totalitarian regime looks like and see the danger coming from the East, unlike the former Eastern bloc countries which had a first-hand experience. And that is exactly the problem: you can hardly explain to someone from Germany or France that the threat is very real and that there have been barbaric acts committed in Ukraine, not unlike the atrocities of the late 19^th century. To put it simply, crimes against humanity are being committed and the army is destroying whole cities. I would have never thought that something like this could happen in the 21^st century. Let me paraphrase Ladislav Fuks in his book The Cremator: we are living in 21^st-century Europe where the world is no longer at war. But the truth is that war has not disappeared, it is still here with us.

Since you just touched upon literature, which Czech writers or playwrights do you like?

As far as books go, I like many of those classical authors, such as Jaroslav Hašek and his Švejk, which I read while I still lived in Ukraine, then, for example, Karel Čapek’s War with the Newts or Talks with T. G. M., and, well, of course, Ladislav Fuks and his novel The Cremator, and many others. I would also mention the Jára Cimrman plays, they are simply the best.

In 2022, the government approved support for Ukrainian students. What does it look like in practice?

The government approved financial support for all Ukrainian students on a monthly basis. I would like to thank the Czech government and our University specifically for all that they have been doing for us. I believe that it was a huge strategic step to give us, Ukrainian students, more time for our studies and learning Czech instead of having to work.

Is the support ongoing?

Yes, it is and I hope it will continue. It is actual, tangible help.

So do you currently spend most of your time studying?

Yes, I do. I spend the absolute majority of my time studying and learning Czech. A Czech student will prepare thoroughly for a seminar in an hour, but it takes me at least two hours. The language barrier is not as big as before, but it is still there because legal Czech is very different from the language used in everyday life.

What will you do if something changes in this respect? Sadly, the government might cut the funding after the election.

I’ve been discussing this a lot with the other Ukrainian students and we basically have two options. The first one is a bursary, which is complicated because you are competing with Czech students, and the other is a part-time job. Even some Czech students find it difficult to combine studies and work and, as I said, some Ukrainian students still study remotely in Ukraine in addition to their studies here. And there is no way you can study at two universities and work at the same time.

Do you have any financial support from your family?

My parents sometimes send some money but they live in a region which is at war, so their possibilities are limited.

Are you going to see them during the summer break, or are you staying here?

I’ll probably stay here.

So you stay in touch mostly online, right?

Yes, we use Messenger every day, so we are in contact all the time.

How do you see your future as a lawyer? In which area would you like to specialise?

I am the type who prefers public law, and constitutional law in particular, even though I know that it is a very specific category. If you specialise in Czech constitutional law, you cannot really apply it abroad compared to, let's say, international law. I’m one of those students who would like to do something good for society. I want my work not to benefit only me, but the public in general. I do not see a lawyer as someone who just knows the law, but rather as someone who helps others in difficult situations.

As a lawyer, you could help your fellow Ukrainian citizens in the Czech Republic. Have you thought about this option?

I have indeed thought about it, and not only in terms of helping Ukrainians, but foreigners in general. The Czech Republic is an EU member state and there are many foreigners here, particularly since 2022. All of them need legal help of some kind, so this is definitely an area which would be beneficial for the public.

So perhaps an NGO, the Ministry of Justice, or a law firm? But you are probably not sure yet, right?

Right, I don’t know yet, we’ll see. But I am inclined to the public sector, rather than private law.

Would you like to go back to Ukraine in the future or do your plans include staying here? Or are you perhaps considering living in yet another country?

We live in turbulent times full of uncertainty, so you can hardly plan three or five years ahead. I really can’t say as to going back to Ukraine. If possible, I would like to complete my studies in Ukraine, too, so that I have two degrees, which is something that the teachers here recommended as well. As far as staying here in the Czech Republic or in another country, there are two sides to the coin. On the one hand, it is up to you whether you can adapt to a new environment. For me, personally, I can say that I have adapted to the Czech environment and it really feels like home here. On the other hand, the question is whether Czech society is ready to accept individuals like me. And there are, indeed, many of us.

Where do you think the problem lies?

With Czech conservatism, which we already mentioned, and perhaps also with the politicisation of the situation in Ukraine. Even if we are trying to show that Ukrainians work and study at Czech universities, there are still people who keep saying: you don’t work, you don’t study. Or the other extreme: you’re taking our jobs! And this can create tension in the society.

Luckily, Prague is much friendlier in this respect than the rest of the country...

Prague is a true European capital, with people from all around the world. If you walk across Wenceslas Square, you will hardly hear any Czech. In fact, you will hear all other languages except Czech. The views in the other regions of the country are much more traditional.

That is true...

I have travelled around the Czech Republic quite a lot, to the east, the west, Bohemia as well as Moravia. I have not yet been to Silesia, but I’m hoping to travel there this year. But I have never experienced any negative behaviour just because of being Ukrainian. And the Czech Republic is a really beautiful country.

What is the main difference between the Czech Republic and Ukraine? I have not been there yet.

Well, Ukraine is a huge country, so there are mountains, steppes, the sea...

We would all love to have the sea in our country… [both laugh]

Some parts make me think of Ukraine, they are quite close to my home in the Sumy Oblast. I do get nostalgic and miss my home country in those moments.

Which parts specifically resemble your home?

Mostly Moravia.

Thank you very much for your time, it was really nice talking with you.

Thank you.

Interview by Markéta Černá.